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Related Topics. Jesus Christ. Download Media Close. I agree to the Terms of Use for media file use. Another very historic example was a ray of sun "light"? A light has a source The Father , an expression or ray the Son and an effect on people ie the warmth of the ray you feel the Holy Spirit. All of these exist in their own right, but each is part of a whole thing a ray of sunlight. Of course as PC said any example that is used falls short of describing God, and always has limitations.
I know we could, llike so many philosophers and thrologians throughout history, go round and round on this one. The major flaws in the trinity are that Christ was resurrected and still has his body, as evidenced by numerous witnesses of a physical, eating, and speaking Christ. Unless there is a familial relationship with the Father there could be no reconciliation wtih this. Could the Father have a son who has abilities that he does not have?
No, not truly. As John explains so clearly Christ did nothing that he did not already see his Father do. The example of rays of light from the sun son being the Son of God cannot work since light cannot be seen.
I know you will want to resist this principle but put yourself between a light source and any object. Can you see the light between you and it, no. Light illuminates, highlights, but cannot be seen. Christ was seen as a physical God, not just a representation of the Father;s essence. It has been argued forcefully but not successfully that Christ was simply the physical manisfestation of the Father so the natural man could relate to God, and all would have been well if he had not performed the promise of eternal immortatliy by being the first fruits of them that slept read resurrection.
Where does that leave the essence of the Father, in the Tinitarian sense? God has made this so simple. It is a Father and Son relationship, that pure and simple. The family is going to be the eternal unit. That is why we are his sons and daughters not in some metapysical sense but in a literal thoughbeit spiritual sense.
That is the pattern repreated over and over in the scriptures. It is easy to understand, comprehend, in the sense we see the order of things, and things as they really Jacob , not to say any of us can comprehend Him fully yet.
Since the Trinity concept is not taught anywhere in the Bible and was not adobpted until the 4th Century AD, should tells us that something has gone astray. If the Father fills the Universe how can we come to 'know' a loving God - according to the Trinitarian view God is unknowable.
How can he be a loving Father, if he is equally 'Mother Nature' as not. Who do the angels worship if not God???? I assure you they do not play their harps, floating around seeking a bodiless, boundless, unseable, unknowable, God.
How could he have a throne if he does not sit on it. How coule Stephen witness that he literally saw Jesus standing on the right hand of God, if he has no hand to begin with. Though it may be figurative about God's right hand man, it is not what he saw, or said. In my humble opinion the Trinitarian view of God is a convenient dogma that allows any and all doctrine to be embraced since the foundation is built on sand.
Nothing can more confusing, nor heretical. You can't tell me that 32, Christian sects or churches less one can have their own take on the Ahanasian creed, with diametrially opposed doctrine and still be considered God's church. If the Trinity were true could God be the author of so much confusion. A house cannot stand against itself and that is exactly what Nicea gave us, a feud that will not be settled until Christ comes again and straightens out their mess.
This is so much fun, especially for me simple minded folk. Since I had no previous high level or theologically educated concept of the Trinity, I read the scriptures in a very simplistic and direct way. At the Jordan, during Jesus baptism all eyewitness described the scene in more or less exactly the same way.
Jesus in the water, the voice in heaven declaring to be the Father of the baptized and the Holy Spirit descending in a more or less physical visible fashion from heaven. So I don't have to fret much there with highly evolved analysis.
The problem arises when people try to put language articulate about a physical experience that has been defined previously by compromise.
Since I was totally ignorant of such previous arrangements, and I am reading today for the very first time I can decide, on my own what the scripture says.
This seems to be impossible for some since they already crafted a certain paradigm around that concept the Trinity. Shifting to a new paradigm represents a quantum leap in as much as 1. I will not even mention the social and emotional impact that such shift will surely bring about. History is littered with theories that previously stood for hundreds of years until their demise. At the end, only time vindicates the prophets.
Most of them were put to the sword for blaspheming, remember? The major flaws in the trinity are that Christ was resurrected and still has his body, as evidenced by numerous witnesses of a physical, eating, and speaking Christ The second person of the Trinity Jesus became incarnate for our humans benefit.
His humanity does not distract or change his divinity. Jesus was God before he became human and is still God now as a resurrected being; also for our benefit. The simple solution to this alleged flaw is that God can sense and can create, whether he has a body or not.
Okay, I think I get this. Let me make your argument even more extreme. Jesus did and could do a lot of things that the Father could not, because he was a corporeal being.
He could, for example, be crucified and killed. So, the argument goes, for the Father to be equal to the Son, he must have a body. I find this argument no more compelling than the age old adolescent philosphical query, "Can God create a rock so big he cannot lift it?
Such as the Father is, such is the Son and such is the Holy Spirit. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensibles, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty; And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. And yet they are not three Lords, but one Lord.
For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every person by himself to be God and Lord; The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding. And in this Trinity none is afore, nor after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three persons are co-eternal, and co-equal.
So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and made of the substance of His mother, born in the world. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of the manhood into God.
One altogether, not by the confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ; Col For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Col Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; All things proceed from God and are given to Christ. Click on the link phrase above — "John - Video -…. It is my belief that too many have merely….
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